EP 7: Carbon Markets in Africa

In this episode of the Candid Sustainability Podcast, host Kabelo Rathobei engages in a conversation with Abdilahi Nuh, an engineer and founder of Presto Innovations. They explore the intricacies of carbon markets, focusing on Africa's pivotal role. Abdilahi discusses his work in carbon removal through biochar, a method that transforms invasive species into carbon-rich material to restore arid lands. The discussion highlights the potential benefits and risks of carbon markets, emphasizing the need for transparency and community involvement. Abdilahi also addresses misconceptions about arid lands and shares insights on making carbon markets more equitable. The episode encourages listeners to rethink carbon markets and engage in informed discussions.

Transcript

Kabelo (00:00)
Everything works out. Okay. Yeah, I'll just carry on and record.

Abdilahi Nuh (00:09)
Are we still testing or?

Kabelo (00:11)
No, no, no, it's okay, but I'll just edit this part out. I think it sounds really good. I normally do a test record if the sound is a bit spotty, but I'm also using, yeah, so it should be fine. Let's go right into it.

Abdilahi Nuh (00:26)
Okay.

Kabelo (00:36)
Welcome to the Candid Sustainability Podcast, a podcast about real conversations at the intersection of people, planet and progress hosted by me, Kabelo Rathobei In each episode, I sit down with change makers, practitioners and everyday people doing extraordinary things in sustainability, from careers and climate finance to youth advocacy, renewable energy and beyond. We keep it candid, we keep it real.

and we bring African perspectives to the global sustainability conversation because Africa's voice belongs at the center of this dialogue and not at the margins. If this is your first time listening, welcome. And if you keep coming back, thank you. Make sure you subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast and do share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. Today, we are digging into carbon markets, what they really are.

what they mean for everyday people and why Africa is at the center of a conversation that is both full of opportunity and full of risk. So let's get into it. Today I'm speaking to Abdilahi Nuh an engineered carbon removal developer and founder of Presto Innovations, a climate tech venture based in Garissa Kenya. His work empowers smallholder farmers by integrating decentralized pyrolysis technology with regenerative agriculture to restore

Africa's arid and semi-arid lands. Welcome to Candid Sustainability and thank you for making the time.

Abdilahi Nuh (02:10)
Well, thank you so much, Kabelo, for the introduction. that was fantastic. And yes.

Kabelo (02:15)
Okay.

Abdilahi Nuh (02:18)
Please keep going.

Kabelo (02:18)
Yeah, you can go.

Okay, great. Yeah, so I was just, thank you so much for making the time again. And would you tell us a little bit about yourself, maybe give us a little bit of your background and the work that you're doing at Presto Innovations.

Abdilahi Nuh (02:35)
Okay, great. So my name is Abdelahi and I am an engineer, carbon re-project developer based in Kenya and in a place called Garisa. Now Garisa is a northeastern part of Kenya and in northeastern part of Kenya, agriculture and passionism are dominant livelihoods in the area. So you can have an idea of how big or how important the impacts of climate change can have on that region. So what I do is I do a lot of work around

storing carbon on soil. And this is something we regard as carbon removal, because we literally store carbon in soil. How that works is, I will go further than that, but we're doing that through nature pathways. Now, the first one Presto Innovations is doing is Biochar. And Biochar is a carbon-rich charcoal-like solid made from organic matter such as poultry litter, rice husks, invasive species, and et cetera. But for us, we are using invasive species.

Kabelo (03:33)
Okay, so what exactly drew you to this area of carbon removal and just carbon markets as a whole?

Abdilahi Nuh (03:41)
Well, my parents grew up in that area, I mentioned, Garrisa and I've been to that area multiple times. And it's an area where people are on the absolute front lines of climate change. And I really saw a massive gap. You global billions are spent on carbon, yet the community is actually doing the restoration work in Africa. I don't know if we're seeing none of it. ⁓ having some experience around climate, because I used to work on the intersection of climate conflict.

Yet when I saw this I was drawn for the market, not just as a business but as a mechanism to finally value the environmental stewardship of my community.

Kabelo (04:25)
So tell me how exactly would you explain like what ⁓ carbon market is to someone who has never heard of the term really.

Abdilahi Nuh (04:35)
yeah, mean just to keep it very short. mean like it's like say for example Kabelo you ⁓ put trash on the floor and then I come clean up the trash. I mean that's me cleaning the trash, that's the project of others and people removing the carbon. You throwing trash on the floor is the polluter. mean having that concept, think of it as a global trade where a good environment to behave is the product. If a company in London emits a ton of CO2, they pay a project like ours in Kenya to remove that some time from the atmosphere.

It's a way for the world to put a price on pollution and value on restoration in short.

Kabelo (05:09)
And

we've heard a lot about, there's big companies are buying carbon credits ⁓ in Africa. What does a carbon credit actually represent?

Abdilahi Nuh (05:23)
So technically it represents one metric tonne of CO2, equivalent either avoided or removed from the atmosphere. As I mentioned, what we're doing is we are removing carbon. So but as far as breast innovation represents, it really represents something deeper. It represents a restored acre of land, a farmer with a new income stream and the permanent removal of an invasive species.

Kabelo (05:46)
And who really then holds the power in this system that you're explaining to us? Is it the buyers, so these companies who are buying the credits? Is it the brokers? Is it the project developers such as yourself? Who really holds the power in the system and what does power really look like in this space?

Abdilahi Nuh (06:07)
Well, that's a very fantastic question. I'll put it like currently the power is concentrated in the middle, the brokers and the project developers who have the technical knowledge to navigate the complex standards, whereby I mean, there is a lot of gap when it comes to funding carbon, know, carbon projects. So my mission is to shift that power back to the project owners, like literally the communities on the ground by making the technology and the data.

transparent and accessible. I mean this is what it's all about when it comes to any carbon removal project or carbon dioxide or carbon offset project. It's about transparency.

Kabelo (06:44)
And where do the local communities then come into this conversation?

Abdilahi Nuh (06:49)
Well, the local communities are the people on the ground. they were for us, for example, we are it's we made it such a way that the communities own the project. It's a community based project whereby I mean, even the credit sales would a big chunk of it would go back to the community. I mean, if it's building wells for the community, it's building schools for the community. So so yeah, I mean, we're training also the communities and how to make biochar, for instance.

Kabelo (07:15)
Okay. But what are the risks then? ⁓ You mentioned a lot of the potential benefits that would then come as a result of this for these communities who are actually, like you said in the beginning of the conversation that you said that they're the ones that actually are bearing the hugest brunt for the climate change that we're experiencing. But what are the other risks? What are the risks when we talk about Africa and its position as

the potential primary supplier of these carbon credits.

Abdilahi Nuh (07:51)
Well, as you know, everything in this world comes with a risk. Of course, there's no such thing as no risk. And of course, in this context, majority of carbon removal projects, majority of carbon removal products are land paced. And the risk is a new form of green colonialism where African land is locked up for decades to serve the net zero goals of Western corporations without benefiting the local people. ⁓ it's about us. We must ensure that

carbon project don't just buy out air, but actually invest in our soil, invest in our people and invest in our livelihoods.

Kabelo (08:28)
And what tensions do you think

are there? Which tensions do you think exist between then these carbon projects that are of course supposed to then help with carbon offsetting for big corporations but also then we also then have the land and the community rights. What tensions exist between these two stakeholders in practice?

Abdilahi Nuh (08:54)
Yeah, well, there's a lot of tension when it comes to... Sorry, was your question more of the project developer side and the community side?

Kabelo (09:06)
Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, so what tensions between the carbon projects and land and the community rights look like in practice.

Abdilahi Nuh (09:16)
Yeah, for us, example, as product developers, we follow the regulations for the national carbon registry, if that's the country-wide and also global registry. So there's a lot of tensions when it comes to doing any carbon project with communities, whereby, I mean, there's a fight on land, if it's about harvesting. For example, for us, harvest preservers to the flora and invasive species.

And for that, the county government, where the area we're operating in, ⁓ whereby they see as if we are like a big project developer who, you know, who got huge funds and we're trying to do a big project in their county without involving them. So to avoid tensions, say per se, it's to make sure that you have the county government on board, the national government on board, and also you align with the global carbon market standards.

Kabelo (10:11)
And there's a lot of discourse that's happening in the media about the how, how, how lucrative, not lucrative, but how these carbon projects, what, what, what, how they're actually reaching their goals and delivering on the promises that they, that they make. So how much of what's being sold as carbon offsetting today is genuinely delivering on its promise is on the ground.

do you know?

Abdilahi Nuh (10:42)
Yeah, of course. I mean, mean, it's, it's, I would say it's a trust the gap, you know, in the market, because some projects have over-promised and undervalued, which is why, you know, like for us, that's why we've ventured to biochar as Presto Innovation and we focus on biochar. Unlike some forested projects that can burn down, biochar is permanent. I mean, it's also measurable and it's a verifiable carbon sink that stays in the soil for centuries.

So that's why we ventured more on soil-based carbon removal projects.

Kabelo (11:18)
So would you say that a lot of the projects, at least your project, is that what you're saying? That it is in fact ⁓ genuinely delivering on its promise? Yes.

Abdilahi Nuh (11:29)
Yes, yes, would say

our project is actually generally delivering on its promise because it's science backed. We've got lab tests on our biochar and we've got lab tests on our soil and everything is traceable and measurable as well.

Kabelo (11:42)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, that's good. And what other frameworks then exist to make carbon markets more equitable? And do you think they are enough, in your opinion?

Abdilahi Nuh (11:55)
Well, would say that enough per se, because I mean, ⁓ these frameworks need more public participation. And the way carbon market frameworks are framed in such a way, it's more of they don't involve people like project developers who are actually doing the work. So I would say there's a lot of work to do when it comes to carbon market frameworks across the world in short.

Kabelo (12:23)
And what kind of advice would you then give to perhaps the African government? know that I mean it's different countries, but just overall what kind of advice would you give on ⁓ African governments that are being approached about maybe starting a carbon deal right now or ⁓ Yeah, what would you tell them?

Abdilahi Nuh (12:44)
Well, first of all, as I said, I mean, when it comes to doing any carbon do, and most of them are land based and majority of African governments fall into this trap of green colonialism. And I say before they fall into any deal, they must first assess and understand. I mean, what's the benefit for the country itself besides the ministry or beyond that? I mean, what do the people in the communities, you know, who are already on that land going to benefit from this project?

And so it's doing a more, I would say, consultation or public participation with the communities themselves and then getting a green light and go ahead from them.

Kabelo (13:26)
Okay. And so let's take it a little bit also to then the actual people on the ground. How do you think people who are interested to getting into carbon markets or participating in ways that would facilitate the carbon market in Africa, how do you think they can be a part of this?

Abdilahi Nuh (13:49)
Well, first of all, I mean, when it comes to carbon market space, a lot of people don't understand what it is. And for someone to participate in carbon market up first, it's about them trying, at least, you know, volunteering or, you know, doing studies on what this actually is. And of course, there's a lot of green scam where they say, I mean, the whole carbon market space or carbon markets in general is green washing per se. And

Kabelo (13:55)
Hmm.

Mm.

Abdilahi Nuh (14:18)
So yeah, mean, every single thing in this world has a positive and negative side. There's no such thing as positive all the way. And so it's about them trying to figure out, you know, ⁓ because we live in a world where there's a lot of misinformation. So it's about them trying to break down those informations and go in workshops about carbon markets. And essentially what I'm saying is for them to have some knowledge on carbon markets rather than having an idea or opinion about it first.

Kabelo (14:48)
Mm-hmm. And where do you think our listeners should then get this information? Where can they read a little bit more about it? Do you have any resources where you can direct them to?

Abdilahi Nuh (14:49)
Okay.

Absolutely, absolutely. United Nations ⁓ UNDP, all these big institutions do have platforms where they actually have free courses on carbon markets. mean, what's carbon markets and all the different standards, all the different registries and etc. So it's literally free information out there.

Kabelo (15:17)
And what's one misconception about carbon markets that you would like to dismantle today?

Abdilahi Nuh (15:28)
Well, that, I'll regard this as my project again. as you know, I'm working on arid and semi-arid lands. And there's this idea that arid and semi-arid lands are wastelands with no value. So these lands are actually the world's greatest untapped reservoirs for carbon removal. So through biochar and regenerative agriculture, we can turn what looks like a desert into a high-value carbon sink that would

benefit hundreds to thousands of people.

Kabelo (16:01)
Okay, you're doing really great work with Presto Innovations. Would you like to tell us a little bit about it and how people can get your services and what services you do offer?

Abdilahi Nuh (16:14)
Yes, please, So as Presto Innovations, we are climate tech venture. We do the project development of doing biochar projects. We also do consulting on biochar or any carbon removal project development. So we consult you and board you on how you can help you through all the process when it comes to national government, the carbon registry, the standards. So we help with that as well. And you can follow our journey on our website.

connect with me on LinkedIn to see how we're turning invasive species into community prosperity.

Kabelo (16:49)
Okay, well thank you very much, Abdilahi Lai. I don't want to keep you too long. I know you have a very busy schedule, but I hope we can carry on this conversation another time.

Abdilahi Nuh (16:59)
Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you so much, Kabelo for your time and thank you for having me on the Candid Sustainability podcast.

Kabelo (17:05)
No, absolutely. So this has been one of the most important conversations I've had on this podcast today because it holds both things at once, the promise and the peril, and it refuses to look away from either. To everyone listening, if this episode made you think differently about carbon markets or if it gave you a language for your concern, please share it. That conversation needs to be heard, needs to be and needs to travel. And thank you very much for listening. This has been the Candice Sustainability Podcast.

Remember to keep it candid and share this podcast with somebody who might need to hear it. Okay. And that is it. Thank you very much. I'm gonna stop recording.